Sam Taylor Wood : Method of Madness

Marcelo Spinelli: This idea of using real time, it is used by some documentary makers as well - when you see the time that you wouldn't see normally in feature films; you know, when decades go by, or days go by and you only see the important bits. But you never see the moments in between, which I think is what makes television or drama quite compelling. Because you only see that family having that problem every Tuesday at nine o'clock, and you know that by 9.30 they will have resolved it. And, even though they have this terrible life, you want - or I know I did when I was a kid - to live my life like that.

Sam Taylor Wood: Yes, I still do now!

MS: Even though they had these horrible problems, you know: drunk, people were dying... Horrible things would happen.

STW Next week they were fine!

MS: Yes, but you never see the moment in between, when they are sort of waiting, or there is nothing happening. Is that a kind of concern?

STW Yes. Definitely. Especially in that piece, the Method of Madness one.

MS: Can you talk about that?

STW Yes, quickly. Moving on. Well the idea of that was I wanted to work with somebody who was an actor, who was particularly known for being a method actor; somebody who was doing well by being a method actor or by using that way of acting. And I wanted to say to them, have a breakdown, a major breakdown, in whatever way. I didn't specify what kind of breakdown, I just said to him I wanted him to act as though he had gone over the edge, as if he can't handle things anymore. Not just that he had split up with his girlfriend, but everything has just become too much, that was the general idea. And so he went away and then came back, and we set up cameras and it was all filmed on 16mm. And I said I wanted to do it in one take so that I really got everything; I told him for ten minutes, and he said to me, you know, that's a really long time for an actor to act that kind of thing. And I said, well surely when you have a breakdown it's not just for ten minutes, it's a lot longer.

MS: But the representation of it usually is much shorter.

STW Yes. About two minutes maximum... So for him it pushed it a bit further, that he really would have to have this big breakdown. So we were filming in this very cold warehouse and had all the camera crew all set up and the lights and everything. And he came in and sat on the chair. And what happened was he'd have this big outburst at the beginning and that would set everything off. And then he would kind of cry, and then he'd wimper, and then he'd go very quiet while he thought about what he was crying about, and then he'd start crying again.

So you got all that 'in between', rather than just a shot of someone crying and then cut, and on to something else. So it just showed all the bits where you do break down and you lose yourself, and then you take check of yourself, and then you feel a bit stupid and you kind of pull yourself together again, but you can't pull yourself together again because you are feeling so bad - and so you let go again. And so to have all that within a ten minute take. But there was a feeling halfway through when he was doing this of, Oh my God, what am I doing?

MS: How important do you think it is that people have access to this kind of information about how work is produced?

STW Well, some of it comes out in the work itself and the rest is just a bonus really. Because (with the one where he has a nervous breakdown), knowing that the guy is a method actor helps you to understand. I mean, you can see what he is going through, but knowing that he is also a method actor, you can understand his method. And also in the title it is made evident by calling it Method in Madness.

MS: Yes, it adds to the work conceptually, in a sense, doesn't it? That's what we were talking about before the interview. You are having someone that is displaying this very intimate, personal and very spontaneous emotional moment, but in fact it is very structured.

STW And very acted-out. Yes, just setting up a situation which, as you say, is very intimate and very spontaneous; and having somebody - like in Brontosaurus - dance naked for you in their bedroom (I mean, it's not their bedroom), in their room; filming that is very intrusive and you are witnessing something that you would not normally witness. So it places you in a very difficult position as a viewer. And then also the contradiction of what you are hearing musically - having, in the Method of Madness, one very jazzy up beat, like Melody radio-kind of music playing against somebody having a nervous breakdown - it makes you feel very differently about what you are looking at. And, you know, you are almost invading that privacy, but then you know it is set up, so it is constantly playing with your feelings.

MS: Kind of drawing you in and also repelling you, or allowing you to get back to yourself.

STW And also, with these works it was really specific to use those people and not myself. Because I didn't want the Method of Madness one to be a cathartic piece of me...

MS: The artist.

STW: The artist expressing him/herself in that way. But by having someone else play out their feeling you are much more in control and directing, and saying 'I want you to do this on my behalf', almost: have my nervous breakdown.